Hash-brown-man wins day in court.

"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove) 05/01/2019 at 12:29 • Filed to: justice

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!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! had to go to extraordinary lengths to beat the system. I view him as a hero for standing up where most of us just don’t have the resources to fight.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 12:32

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I read that this morning, this guy is my hero.

DipodomysDeserti > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 12:39

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The bigger question is, why was this guy talking into a McDonald’s hash brown?

Our state legislator just passed a law that would make eating while driving equivalent to  handling a phone and driving, but it was vetoed.

Chariotoflove > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/01/2019 at 12:40

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Here’s another for your enjoyment, which I really liked as a bicyclist. The quote that sticks out for me is the judge saying, “Who appeals a civil infraction?” he asked, calling the appellate brief “a $10,000 brief for a $200 citation.” The answer is usually “no-one” because they don’t have the resources to stand up to the police.

I once got a speeding ticket in upstate NY. I got a court date and drove an hour and a half back to the little hamlet months later to fight it because it pissed me off so much.

Chariotoflove > DipodomysDeserti 05/01/2019 at 12:42

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That’s good, because it would open up a whole Pandora’s box of potential civil infractions. I think you should have to first show with hard data that “distracted eating” is a thing.

Ash78, voting early and often > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 12:50

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DA : We will scatter, smother, cover, dice, chunk, top, cap, and pepper you!

Man: I g uess we’ll have to...

*sunglasses*

Hash this out in court.

YEEEAAAHHHH

Chariotoflove > Ash78, voting early and often 05/01/2019 at 12:52

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Wonder if brown-nosing was part of the trial strategy.

DipodomysDeserti > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 12:58

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The Department of Public Safety (our state police) estimated (no hard data) that cell phones account for only a quarter of distracted driving accidents, so the bill would have made anything not related to the operation of the vehicle illegal. It was pretty vague, which is why it was vetoed.

We finally passed a ban on handling a phone while driving after a police officer was killed by someone texting.

PowderHound > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 13:08

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That was weird. I haven’t quite read it all but from the video, if any of them were impeded traffic it was the guy riding two wide and in the road itself who got behind his buddy in a reasonable amount of time when he realized traffic was coming

Chariotoflove > PowderHound 05/01/2019 at 13:13

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Right.  Basically, the cyclists were operating as the law dictates, and the cop was the one who actually didn’t know the statute.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 13:13

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I’ve had to many friends hit by cars, I am generally very defensive when I ride.

Chariotoflove > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/01/2019 at 13:16

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As one of them, so am I.

functionoverfashion > DipodomysDeserti 05/01/2019 at 13:20

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would have made anything not related to the operation of the vehicle illegal

When said vehicle contains small children, I’m not sure which is worse: responding to their requests or ignoring them. Handing them a stuffed animal that fell on the floor is definitely not the safest thing ever. But ignoring the cries of a child whose beloved stuffed animal is now on the floor? Hmm

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 13:42

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Imagine that. 

DipodomysDeserti > functionoverfashion 05/01/2019 at 13:43

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That, and drinking water came to mind. You can’t really restrict people from drinking water while driving in Arizona.

functionoverfashion > DipodomysDeserti 05/01/2019 at 15:23

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Or anywhere, really. Now that you mention it

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 16:25

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I’m all for beating overzealous law officers or getting tickets thrown out when there was no actual infraction. I just hope that this doesn't make people feel like they can get away with distracted driving. Just have a McDonald's bag in the passenger seat with a hash brown, then if you get pulled over put the hash brown in your lap. "No officer of course I wasn't texting, I was eating this hash brown!"

Chariotoflove > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 05/01/2019 at 16:29

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I’m right there with you. I have no pity for people messing with their phones while driving. What really amazes me is seeing people holding a phone to an ear when I know their car has bluetooth. But you have to start from a presumption of innocence, and I think too many officers start from a presumption of guilt. And their judgements are almost un-challenge able in our system.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 16:35

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Absolutely agree. But I will say I’ve been pulled over by an officer who did start from a presumption of innocence. He clocked me for speeding, I was, like 20 over, but he also thought I was texting. He asked me about that part though, I told him I was looking at the navigation because I was unsure about the exit I needed and that I would never text and drive because I’m a motorcycle rider  (he was a motorcycle cop). He was cool with that and we chatted about bikes while he wrote me up!  Best speeding ticket I ever got!

Chariotoflove > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 05/01/2019 at 16:44

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That’s cool. I had one stop me for 40 in a 30. I asked him if he could give me a warning. He said nah, he was sent out to make his quota. I could be mad at myself, but not really at him. He was polite and friendly  about it.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 17:49

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I’m astounded that the case went that far. Some of the work I used to do as a paralegal on the side was prosecuting traffic citations in which the defendant hired an attorney. Unless the citation involved an accident with property damage or injury, or it was in school zone, the standard offer was guilty/deferred 90 days (and I’d take guilty /deferred 30 or 60 days if their attorney really had to make a show of getting something for the client. Whatever , from our perspective... ). Everyone took this deal, because it was a good deal. The town judged si gn ed off on it every time with nothing more than court costs assessed (or a charitable donation in lieu of court costs from time- to- time). Pay the minimal costs, don’t get another citation for 30/60/90 days and it gets dismissed without points on their license and affecting insurance rates. It was a good deal for the defendant, it was a good deal for the judge who didn’t want to send all day on Saturday trying traffic citations and a good deal for the town that couldn’t afford to pay the special prosecutor (and myself who did most of the work for him) to have these things actually go to tr ia l. From a perspective of justice, we looked at it as the act   of hiring an attorney in and of itself for a couple of hundred dollars already cost them mor e than the fine would’ve been anyway in most cases.

Chariotoflove > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 05/01/2019 at 18:54

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Most people will take that easy way out because they have neither the money nor the time to fight. The difference here seems to be the defendant wanted to win on principle and make a point. No kind of admission of guilt was going to satisfy him, points or no.

What surprises me a little bit is that once he hired an attorney and was obviously going to get serious, the prosecutor didn’t drop the charges (at least after discovery), for the reasons you say. It’s not worth it to the city either. It makes me think the prosecutor wanted to make a point as well.

As an aside, I have hired an attorney from out of state before to represent me and get deferred. I never met the guy, and it cost me as much as the ticket, but it was worth it to me to not get the points and not have to appear in person to do anything.

The Compromiser > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 18:57

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In Ontario, eating is distracted driving as well. Same fines and suspensions. Less likely to get busted for it, but it counts. Even a double double from timmies.

Chariotoflove > The Compromiser 05/01/2019 at 18:59

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So then cup holders are entrapment!

The Compromiser > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 19:02

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And drive throughs ar e the r ed light district, with hamburger hookers and poutine pimps.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 19:07

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Agreed. This feels like the prosecutor forgot to check with their answering service somewhere along the line.

I can certainly relate to the burning desire to win on principle. One of the side-effects of that gig was I learned exactly where the stings are behind the curtain, so to speak. It turns out that traffic citations simply don’t matter in this state if one is familiar with the rules for criminal procedure (because NM law actually treats all traffic citations as a criminal matter and not an administrative matter like many/most states) and then knows how to apply them to a system that otherwise treats them as the absolute lowest priority in the criminal system. That knowledge means that I truly do not care if a police officer writes me a ticket for something. I already know I’ll take the court date, that I’m never going to show up for that court date because everything can be accomplished via correspondence, and some period of time after my not guilty plea the ticket will be outright dismissed. It will simply go away after me sending in a few pages of correspondence and possibly making one phone call. Once you’ve done it once, it is just a matter of updating the forms with whatever the current citation number and date it is.  There’s even an ultimate ace in the hole in the system, but I’ve never had anything even get close to the trial that would have to take place before that appeals process.

Mid 30's me doesn’t get pulled over anymore because I’m old (and driving a vehicle that attracts no attention in a generally reasonable manner), nor do I fell much need to flaunt the system. But if 18 year-old me had known what I know now, oh man would I have gone a whole lot faster a whole lot more often that I already did at that age.

Chariotoflove > The Compromiser 05/01/2019 at 19:43

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If Willy Wonka had an adult-themed wing.

Chariotoflove > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 05/01/2019 at 19:52

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Wow. The only tip I got like that was a JP in NY  who advised me to plead guilty and ask for the officer’s statement. If he didn’t provide it in a timely fashion (and they usually don’t), I should show up at my date and move for dismissal on th e grounds that I wasn’t given what I need to prepare my defense. I used it, and it worked to plead down to a non-moving violation.

When I was a kid in IN, I was told by some that you just don’t show up to your court date, and if the cop misses it, the case is dismissed. But I didn’t trust that advise because others told me that would just get you a bench warrant. When you’re a kid, you’re too scared to take those chances.

I too would loved to have known the system like you do now, although I’m not in NM .

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 20:37

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Similar deal. I win at discovery every time, because I’ve never actually had a cop provide discovery at all (much less by the deadline). Even if they did, and I lost at trial later, the appeals process all but guarantees that it would go away. The municipal or magistrate court where traffic citations are heard isn’t a court of record, so there is an automatic right of appeal to a district court that requires no reason, and the appeal is de novo (everything starts over again as if the original action never happened). Police officers aren’t allowed by rule to prosecute their own cases in court for big boys, so the appeal would get kicked to the district attorney’s office for an ADA or contracted special prosecutor to work... and there’s still the traditional appeals process after that if one really wanted to play lawyer and fight it out all the way. I can’t imagine a scenario where a prosecutor would pursue the citation outside of something involving injury (or maybe a bunch of property damage). They’ve all got other things to do, and all of those other things are meaningful.

Interestingly, I never got pulled over at all in my time as a Texan. I’ve never had the opportunity to try out the Texas system.

There was that one cop that wrote me a BS speeding ticket at a speed limit change on a stretch I’ve interstate I’ve driven hundreds of times . He wrote down two different locations where the alleged violation occurred (one of which would not have been speeding), a narrative explanation that made no sense and a had couple of typos on my name and license plate number. I won before it mattered anyway, but I would’ve relished the opportunity the examine that idiot under oath and prove him to be either a liar or incompetent, or both. I would’ve actually bothered to show up in person to do that.

Chariotoflove > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 05/01/2019 at 20:48

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It would be a perverse kind of fun to do that.

The Compromiser > Chariotoflove 05/01/2019 at 22:35

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I thought they were all adult-themed wings????